Ok, Russ, I'll try that.
But I'm guessing that you will tell me next that there's brown paper, and then there's brown paper.
Am I right?
Steve
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:41 pm ] |
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I know this was discussed, but I cannot find the thread. Today I bent a set of KOA. VERY EASY TO BEND. I wrapped it in craft paper as I always do. Bent it on one of John Halls benders. Heating blacket and stainless steel slats. (But wrapped in paper) and I have some green on both sides. How do you get rid of it??? |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:00 pm ] |
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it should sand out... |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:07 pm ] |
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Andy, this happens to me as well. And, John's advice works as well, too. Watch your thickness, and sand away. Here's something gleaned from Allied Lutherie's site: "One tip I recall is that sometimes when bending sides you end up baking some of the wood's greenish extractives into them. To avoid this, you can soak the sides in water and replace the water from time to time until the water remains clear." Hope this sheds some light. Steve |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:44 pm ] |
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I've just spent the morning sanding out the green in some Tas blackwood sides. It does come out, but it takes a fair bit of elbow grease. The good news is that the box for #2 is closed! |
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| Author: | old man [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:17 pm ] |
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Andy, my cherry turned green, too. Scared me to death. But it did sand out. Ron |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:57 pm ] |
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The issue of wood turning green has to do with steel reacting with the tannins in some woods. Species like Cherry and Maple are particularly susceptible to this. You can avoid it by wrapping the wood in aluminum foil, which will not react with the wood. That's why professional bending irons are made from aluminum.... |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:41 pm ] |
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Another tip is to make sure you use a decent quality foil, some of the cheaper ones seem to be made of something else that reacts. If you want to use paper wrap your slats in foil first then use your kraft paper. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:41 am ] |
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craft parchment is not the parchment paper to use like from a hobby shop. Use bakers parchment, it is meant to get hot and not cause burns. To use the craft stuff as opposed to bakers paper is comparing apples and oranges. You won't need the foil it is overkill |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:42 am ] |
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I believe there is a misnomer here. We're not talking about "craft" paper, it is Kraft paper. It is like brown wrapping paper. Ron |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:19 am ] |
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Merci Beaucoup! Andy I did use kraft paper....I guess the wrong type |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:32 am ] |
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Brown celouse is the base of Kraft paper. Like the brown paper bag stuff john |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:12 am ] |
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I thought that the last time this came up the consensis was that it is the aluminium foil combined with excess water that was the cause, and that substituting kraft paper for the foil was the solution? I had greening on both sides but more on the first side that I bent where I had used more water, both sides were wrapped in foil. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:28 am ] |
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On KOA I use distilled water . I don't want to run a risk of greening. My set had to be stained to cover the green. I still atribute the greening to the Aluminium foil as I have a well and know there are no chemicals. John Hall |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:52 am ] |
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Aluminum cannot react with wood tanins. Absolutely not. Steel can. If the steel gets wet, the water can work its way through or around the paper and right to the wood. I believe the issue is with the iron in steel, which of course does not exist in aluminum. If aluminum were the culprit, nobody, StewMac or LMI et. al. would make their bending irons from it. Look elsewhere for the problem. John, well water can be loaded with chemicals from the ground. Sulphur and other minerals are commonly found in well water. Iron can leach from pipes into well water or tap water. Distilled water is always the best bet, or highly filtered water. |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Don Williams] Aluminum cannot react with wood tanins. Absolutely not. [/QUOTE] Why not? |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:54 pm ] |
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clear as mud. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:39 pm ] |
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Ok, here's what's been happening to me: I bend over an aluminum pipe. Then, the bent sides are cooked / cooled on a galvanized steel form. Now, the only place I had any greening at all was in the waist, where the waist clamp was wrapped with aluminum foil. I'm thinking if any greening should have occurred, it would be on the inside, where the sides were against the galvanized steel. None there. Only the waist area, against the aluminum. Hmmmmm... SK |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:19 pm ] |
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I think Don is right, pure aluminium will not react, but some of the cheaper foils I think have something else in them that does react, so I think it is all to do with the grade of the foil used. That said a good insurance policy for woods like koa, is brown paper. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:37 am ] |
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Ok, Russ, I'll try that. But I'm guessing that you will tell me next that there's brown paper, and then there's brown paper. Am I right?
Steve |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:05 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956]Excuse me guys but would you please let me know what the heck kraft paper is? [/QUOTE] I've been wondering the same thing, Hesh. |
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| Author: | Phil Marino [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:19 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Todd Rose] [QUOTE=Hesh1956]Excuse me guys but would you please let me know what the heck kraft paper is? [/QUOTE] I've been wondering the same thing, Hesh. [/QUOTE] I always thought it was the stuff brown paper bags ( or, "sacks", depending on where you come from) are made of. This is taken from the American Forest and Paper Association web site: Kraft Paper Kraft Paper is paper made essentially from wood pulp produced by a modified sulfate pulping process. The word kraft is from the German word for "strong." It is a comparatively coarse paper particularly noted for its strength, and in unbleached grades is primarily used as a wrapper or packaging material. Kraft paper can be watermarked, striped, or calendered, and it has an acceptable surface for printing. Its natural unbleached color is brown but by the use of semibleached or fully bleached sulfate pulps it can be produced in lighter shades of brown, cream tints, and white. The most recognizable use of kraft paper to consumers is the paper grocery sack. The self-opening sack (SOS), which stands on its own, is an American innovation that has been around since 1883. Paper sacks are made from a renewable resource and they can be reused several times for shopping, then be recycled at curbside or drop-off sites. Paper grocery sacks make excellent recycling containers at curbside for old newspapers, magazines, mixed paper and other recyclables. Cheers, Phil |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:20 am ] |
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Steve I should add that I am basing this on over here, one of our supermarkets has an own brand called tesco value and the foil is cheap, but it rusts ! and stains wood, one I went to a better brand which was described as Aluminium foil, I haven't had a problem. Is now a good time to tell you there are lots of types of brown paper !! 
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| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:35 am ] |
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Hesh The stuff from Stewmac is perfect, that is what I use. |
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